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Unread 07-16-2010, 09:21 PM
SOE-Rothgar SOE-Rothgar is offline
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Default Changes incoming!

Rest up because you're most likely going to have a lot of work to do when GU57 hits test server in just over a week!

I can't go into a lot of detail right now, but we've made some pretty big UI changes for 57. The default UI is getting a re-skin and many windows have been modified.

We'll post more when we can.
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Unread 07-16-2010, 09:49 PM
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Don't know whether to go YAY or BOO cuz I don't want to see Profit broken but I know the need for LUA is great and fearing thats what this is. Since gm9 no longer writes/maintains Profit I'm sure its gonna need a complete rewrite and will take major work on whoever is doing it.
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Unread 07-16-2010, 10:19 PM
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Yay for me being retired.

But who said anything about LUA?
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Unread 07-16-2010, 11:24 PM
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I would hope LUA is incoming but from his announcement it sounds like it won't be quite that major.

Silat

PS Profit will work
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Unread 07-16-2010, 11:25 PM
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Profit better work or I'm firing Silat

Oh wait you don't work for me. Dang can't fire you unless I pay you first then I can muuuuuwahhh
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Unread 07-17-2010, 02:36 AM
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Yay for UI changes (updates?). I feel like the UI has been so neglected these past few months!
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Unread 07-17-2010, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOE-Rothgar View Post
Rest up because you're most likely going to have a lot of work to do when GU57 hits test server in just over a week!

I can't go into a lot of detail right now, but we've made some pretty big UI changes for 57. The default UI is getting a re-skin and many windows have been modified.

We'll post more when we can.
tease
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Unread 07-18-2010, 04:30 PM
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I hope you've got auto-filtering for quest POIs for active quests on that list Rothgar, or I'm gonna have to chase you down at FanFaire
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Unread 07-18-2010, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOE-Rothgar View Post
Rest up because you're most likely going to have a lot of work to do when GU57 hits test server in just over a week!
I hope you've got some demos for the Block Party.
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Unread 07-18-2010, 09:00 PM
Landiin Landiin is offline
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Oh lord, Another LU 13 where every thing changed and every UI was broke. I hated that time (mostly because I am a lazy bastard). IF real scripting comes with the changes cool if not blah, but cool the UI is getting a much needed revamp. /bow Rothgar for your on going work.
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Unread 07-18-2010, 09:03 PM
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Thanks for the heads up Rothgar. Can't wait to see whats in store when it hits the test server.

Lua is already coming to lotro, wouldn't be surprised if it comes to EQ2 in the distant future.
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Unread 07-18-2010, 10:50 PM
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I'm gonna assume there's more to this than a simple re-skin of the default UI. Least I'd hope SOE wouldn't impose major custom UI breakage just for cosmetic changes.

Looking forward to new cool stuff to play with. As Drum mentioned... not much action on the UI front in months.
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Unread 07-19-2010, 03:46 AM
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Post it soon! I want to see the changes before I leave for Basic Combat Training on the 27th!

Haha!!!
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Unread 07-20-2010, 10:29 AM
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Please tell me LUA is incoming. I'd happily break all my existing UIs for LUA. I mean really, right now all we can do pretty much is re-skin.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 10:45 AM
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Whatever this is, can we PUH-LEASE get some advanced click-casting for healers (ala the 'Clique' addon for that other game) or the ability for UI authors to create such a thing? I'm trying to migrate from such a game and I've been simply horrified at the method of healing. I feel like I've gone back in a time machine to EQ1 (which I did play but never had to heal in). I was thinking about writing a very long post last night but I think I'll hold off after seeing this. I was also thinking about re-rolling DPS just due to this, which is sad. I'm not trying to turn this into another game but I am trying to make my life easier, so that's where this is coming from

A few examples of click-casting combos (involving modifier keys + various mouse buttons):

Shift+Right button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = Heal 1
Alt+Right button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = Heal 2
Ctrl+Right button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = EmergencyHeal 1
Ctrl+MiddleButton button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = Buff 1
Ctrl+Button4 button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = Cure 1

The modifier is pushed with the left hand simultaneous to the mouse button being pushed with the right hand and this cuts out the step of targeting (cutting out 1 user action per cast!) and was a huuuuuge advancement in my game, and that of so many healers. It also allowed us to focus our vision on the group health bars, which were at least more center screen than the action bars, which are usually at the bottom, resulting in slightly higher situational awareness.

Please? *sobs uncontrollably*


EDIT: I know some UI's have a few cast buttons next to health bars but that is just not the same thing (sorry :/).

EDIT 2: Oh, and health-bar fading when someone goes out of range. Thanks

Last edited by Chaws : 07-20-2010 at 11:04 AM.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaws View Post
Whatever this is, can we PUH-LEASE get some advanced click-casting for healers (ala the 'Clique' addon for that other game) or the ability for UI authors to create such a thing? I'm trying to migrate from such a game and I've been simply horrified at the method of healing. I feel like I've gone back in a time machine to EQ1 (which I did play but never had to heal in). I was thinking about writing a very long post last night but I think I'll hold off after seeing this. I was also thinking about re-rolling DPS just due to this, which is sad. I'm not trying to turn this into another game but I am trying to make my life easier, so that's where this is coming from

A few examples of click-casting combos (involving modifier keys + various mouse buttons):

Shift+Right button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = Heal 1
Alt+Right button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = Heal 2
Ctrl+Right button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = EmergencyHeal 1
Ctrl+MiddleButton button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = Buff 1
Ctrl+Button4 button (pushed while the mouse is over someone's health bar) = Cure 1

The modifier is pushed with the left hand simultaneous to the mouse button being pushed with the right hand and this cuts out the step of targeting (cutting out 1 user action per cast!) and was a huuuuuge advancement in my game, and that of so many healers. It also allowed us to focus our vision on the group health bars, which were at least more center screen than the action bars, which are usually at the bottom, resulting in slightly higher situational awareness.

Please? *sobs uncontrollably*


EDIT: I know some UI's have a few cast buttons next to health bars but that is just not the same thing (sorry :/).

EDIT 2: Oh, and health-bar fading when someone goes out of range. Thanks
I can't see how having to press a key on keyboard and click on the mouse is easier than just clicking the mouse on the quickcast buttons on ProfitUI in an area that is less than 1/2 inch from the health bar itself.

Silat

Last edited by TalTal : 07-20-2010 at 11:10 AM.
  #17  
Unread 07-20-2010, 11:45 AM
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It's not about being easier, it's about being able to combine keystrokes for more advanced, and more amounts of, possibilities.

If you can have 1 single button location, but have 10 different key combinations, think about the space you can potentially save if you're a keybind fanatic like some are
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Unread 07-20-2010, 12:13 PM
TalTal TalTal is offline
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I wasn't arguing against it . More options is great. Just saying how I could not see it being better/simpler to do that task that way.

Silat
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Unread 07-20-2010, 12:26 PM
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Right. Plus if we had true custom keybinds, you could always bind keystrokes/mouse+keystrokes to do casts without the need to click on the right part of the screen.

Can be useful in the heat of battle.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalTal View Post
I can't see how having to press a key on keyboard and click on the mouse is easier than just clicking the mouse on the quickcast buttons on ProfitUI in an area that is less than 1/2 inch from the health bar itself.

Silat
Question of preference. If I had the choice I'd play without a mouse, I'm much much faster issuing commands via keystrokes compared to having to navigate small buttons with a cursor. Fun fact: while I still played I never used the macro buttons myself (the cure buttons I did use however).
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Unread 07-20-2010, 01:34 PM
DuneWarrior DuneWarrior is offline
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LUA would so make me wet myself... And i agree, i would HAPPILY have everything break for that
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Unread 07-20-2010, 03:11 PM
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If it was LUA I would think it would have been stated .... hope I am wrong.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 04:08 PM
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Doesnt sound like LUA, but man that would be sweet if they do ever make that change.

Love it or hate it, WoW UI modding brings a tremendous amount of flexibility and customization options.

I would guess the biggest hurdle is the number of problems this could expose. The UI to client interface might not be as clean as needed to give players direct access. And protecting against mods that "play the game for you" also takes time and energy.

If not built properly, LUA enabled mods would quickly be deciding which ability to cast next for maximum DPS, or who to target and heal next, with which heal, etc. WoW struggled with this for a while but eventually overcame it. I know, i built a few mods that exactly these things

All that said, I would LOVE to see LUA powered mods for EQ2 in the future. I believe its one of the greatest features of WoW, one that truly makes the experience a notch above any other MMOs.
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Unread 07-20-2010, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gm9 View Post
Question of preference. If I had the choice I'd play without a mouse, I'm much much faster issuing commands via keystrokes compared to having to navigate small buttons with a cursor. Fun fact: while I still played I never used the macro buttons myself (the cure buttons I did use however).
Yeah I'm currently struggling to use both at the same time and I was contemplating just using key binds (but that truly is a transport back to EQ1, as I said). The profit buttons are so very tiny on 1920x1200, and some are 1 pixel away from fun things like "kick member" or "leave group." Disappearing on hover-out when in a group further makes them a trial to use. But I can appreciate the intent and the effort and at least there is some option there for people. I agree that the cure buttons are wonderful.

Anyway, this is much less about Profit to me and more about the UI in general. I freely admit I am spoiled by a highly extensible UI/mod framework. I think I can grasp some of the constraints that UI authors are working under in EQ2 and if they ever make things more flexible then hooray

Quote:
I can't see how having to press a key on keyboard and click on the mouse is easier than just clicking the mouse on the quickcast buttons on ProfitUI in an area that is less than 1/2 inch from the health bar itself.
I forgot to mention it but you don't actually need the modifier keys for click-casting. You could put the cursor over someone's health bar and push the scroll-wheel button, or button4 or button5 and have a particular spell cast on that person. The modifier keys just allow you to extend it to many more combinations.

Last edited by Chaws : 07-20-2010 at 07:52 PM.
  #25  
Unread 07-21-2010, 07:44 PM
SOE-Rothgar SOE-Rothgar is offline
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Unfortunately its not Lua this time. We haven't had time to tackle that project yet and it will take a lot of time to do especially if we try to expose lots of client data to it. So Lua will hopefully be something in the future.

I'll give a few more hints on what is coming though, and yes, we'll show you some things at Block Party if you can make it out.

First, there's a complete reskin of our textures to freshen up the default interface. If your custom UI is already using its own textures, you'll be fine. We've added some elements to existing textures though, so for some of the new UI elements to work, you'll have to remove your custom texture and rely on the default, or you'll have to update your texture to include our new elements.

We've also moved a few elements to other textures in an attempt to start phasing out old UI textures that aren't needed anymore and reduce the memory footprint. However, we've also recooked a lot of our textures to not be compressed. This will eliminate a lot of compression artifacts from the UI.

All icon sheets and icon frames have gotten rounded edges which really softens up the UI and looks nice.

The inventory window is gone and has been merged with the Persona window. We're now referring to this as the "Character" window because we think its more in line with other games and will make the most sense to incoming players.

The XP window has been overhauled and now acts as a navigation bar in addition to displaying XP. It can be snapped to the top or bottom of your screen or can remain floating.

We've merged the clock into the mini-map and removed the separate clock window. The map also displays compass directions and the compass window will no longer be visible by default for new users.

The hotbar windows have been cleaned up so they now default to the original icon size which makes them look sharper. We've removed 2pixels of padding from around the icons that didn't really have any purpose. The customizable padding value is still there. We've also added a right-hand grab handle which balances with the spinner control on the left and makes it easy to move the hotbar. If you turn off the spinner, the grab handle will hide as well.

When you hit F10 to show window frames on all windows, you can now freely move the windows around even if they are locked and click-through. When you hit F10 two more times to return to normal UI mode, they will be locked again.

The effects and detriments windows have had their icons shrunk to be the same size as the new maintained window. The maintained window has had text added similar to Profit's maintained window. However, you can right-click the window to disable text if you don't want it. This change is already on test.

We dropped the LFG and Friends buttons from the group window and made quite a few small changes like this to clean things up. The bag windows no longer have a dedicated titlebar for the close buttons. Those were moved down to the space where the bag name exists.

The tutorial triggers (purple question marks) now display the tooltip next to the icon so you can see what its about. All of the text in these have been shortened and revamped.

There's a new tutorial system that shows for new users. It works like the purple question marks by popping when you need to know something, but these new windows are 800x600 and give you more information about what you need to learn. These can be disabled but should be pretty helpful to new players coming in, especially if they are new to MMO's. They explain things like movement, combat, grouping, inventory, broker, etc.

There are almost too many little things to mention, but this gives you a good idea of the things we've changed.

Hopefully we haven't caused too much headache for you guys, but the overall goal was to freshen the Default UI and make the game more accessible to new players. We've been preaching this strategy for awhile but haven't had the time to get around to the UI yet. There are other bits of functionality that will happen automatically like displaying quest POI's and regions in the mini-map.

I hope you guys like this stuff! I'm really excited about it. I still want to implement Lua on the client side for scripting, we just have to see if we can fit that into the schedule soon.

Performance is still a big drive for us. We've been doing things here and there in the software to increase performance and we also have some new hardware coming in soon.
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