Did I go too far? (Scripting)

[EQAditu]

I made a few UI mods that have no purpose except to script actions.
http://www.eq2interface.com/download...Scripting.html
http://www.eq2interface.com/download...Scripting.html
http://www.eq2interface.com/download...Scripting.html

Unlike traditional UI mods, their purpose had nothing to do with displaying information or making things pretty. They seem somewhat popular but have now seemingly raised some controversy. (Read some of the auto cure comments)

So... like the title asks... did I go too far? Did I break some rule in my attempts to be unique? Consciously I figured that since all of my actions were within the UI scripting engine so there shouldn't be any problems. I didn't think it could be considered 3rd party software either.

On the other hand, it is possible but not recommended to go AFK and the script would still sort of function. I could have implemented a dead-man's switch into the script but I didn't think of the need. I have heard that SoE grudgingly allows macroing programs as long as you are at the keyboard witnessing the actions. Personally I suffer mild RSI so I thought that was an enlightened stance to take. But apparently if you ask GMs they might not say anything like that.

So my scripts are not compiled 3rd party software, but if you think about it... a UI script is software of a sort not made by SoE. Of course that means that all UIs with any button event handlers would be against SoE's 3rd party policy if you took the idea of 3rd party software that far.

So how far do you take it to either match or be free of SoE's views of what is against their policy? One quote from a GM mentions they would be totally against something that automatically casts damaging spells. Obviously they don't know what I do with my G15 during Milyex Vioren. But the scripting techniques in my other mods could be used to do just that. I have in fact done just that... a script that casts 1-30 spells in rotating order either automatically or by a button press per cast. But would releasing it be going another step too far?

I obviously wasn't being intentionally malicious in releasing these mods. I think uploading them to a site like this displays that I didn't think what I was doing is wrong by making it public.

[EQAditu]

Go figure... apparently someone already made a post like this.
http://www.eq2flames.com/general-gam...utomation.html
And was apparently "sickened" by my actions, heh.

[DjThaPimp]

I guess the question would be, how would they find out. If you are indeed at the keyboard and playing the game as they want you too, how would they find out if you are using an auto-cure macro like this and if so, shouldnt they give you a warning since, as you mentioned, you achieved this all using the software they provide for UI modification?

I dont know, we all use the devices and technology available to us to make things simpler, its the nature of our species. The idea behind it would be to allow you to devote more attention to other things. I for one macro my heart casts I have four hotbuttons, Healers/Tanks&Others/Mages/Scouts for casting hearts. I dragged the spell ability command from the in game macro maker and typed in the appropriate names for each class for the target and spam those buttons when I know hearts are starting to run out. Could that be considered cheating, maybe but I think it all depends on how you use it.

If you are using something like this so that you can indeed go afk and reap in game rewards while you arent actually at the keyboard actively pursuing it, then yes I would say that is wrong. If you are using this to help you to make things go easier and more smoothly so you can play even better then I dont see it being a problem. If you have used this script, you will notice that in most circumstances where healing/curing is most crucial it is actually best to disable it and take over the control for yourself, so it isnt really helping you to win where you would be unable to do so otherwise. Its like a being on an aircraft, they engage autopilot and monitor the controls and are still "actively" flying the plane but if something out of the ordinary happens they need to resume control themselves. Do they still get a paycheck for flying the plane, sure they do.

/Shrug, I dont know, Im sure the purist will disagree and this will be batted back and forth but thats my take on it.

[Drumstix42]

I think the fact of making fairly boring/mundane tasks easier to do/bypass... they're are interesting tools.

I have to admit, that anything "automation wise" seems very close to infringing on the EULA. Mainly because it requires the user to not have to press anything on their computer to do an action caused by the game that would normally require it.

Game changing though? I wouldn't say so at all. I'd say it's more prone to cause things to happen that you wouldn't want anyhow. I think some people get their panties way too much in a bunch over it, to be honest.

And for the last thing that I can think of... EQAditu: I don't think you went "too far" at all. The rule of "if you can do it via the UI it is ok" is pushing it... but I dunno.

The only thing that ever urks me is when it's something specifically to beat certain parts of the game. Kinda like Rays of Disintegration...

[Narzoo]

I will go ahead and admit that I use the Auto-Cure script.

I have always considered myself a damn good healer and I enjoy the challange of keeping everyone alive.

SoE changed the cures so that there was just one Cure. With my already existing Click to Cure on profit, where I clicked a picture that lit up, this only makes things a little bit more easier.

What your script doesn't do is Cure the tank first....and a lot of the time it is curing things that don't need curing and makes me have to wait a second to cast a heal because it decided to cure

I don't think the Auto-Cure is a bad thing. It has good points and it has flaws.

I still have to be at my computer to play the game...I use it to help me, but I won't rely on it.

And I think it is an excelent example of fantastic coding. So a big WELL DONE to you

Taking it further, tho.....using what you know to give complete automation....That I think would be taking it too far.

There are people I know who would benifit from having many of EQ2's functions automated for them. A very good friend of mine often leaves her computer to tend to her kids at a moments notice. A button that she could click before she left so her character continued to heal her group would let her deal with her kids in peace without worrying about coming back to a dead group.

But there are people that would abuse it. Botters for one.....Power levellers that just want to get to 80.....I wouldn't want to see this kind of automation being opened up to people like this.

Seeing as you have no control on who would use such scripts, I think it best that mods that auto heal, auto cast spells or auto tradeskill be kept locked away and not released. Anything else, I think would be fine

An Auto-Buffer would be cool...to buff after death

[nluerdarea]

I personally use the Potion Scripting, not for the auto potion, but for the one button clicking to cure myself (in PvP, if I use a potion, it engages me and I like to choose when to fight and when to flee). I say keep it up, you are doing a great job. Sony can't say "Don't add this to your XML interface mods", I mean seriousley. If SoE gets in on it, then fine, but they will really need to redo the way their games interface works then. If they give you the tools, and you aren't abusing them, so be it. Just keep it to simple things like potions and curing so people can't abuse them.

Also, what is rays of disintegration and why would you want to auto cancel it?

[EQAditu]

Originally Posted by Narzoo

<...>
There are people I know who would benifit from having many of EQ2's functions automated for them. A very good friend of mine often leaves her computer to tend to her kids at a moments notice. A button that she could click before she left so her character continued to heal her group would let her deal with her kids in peace without worrying about coming back to a dead group.
<...>
An Auto-Buffer would be cool...to buff after death

I suppose an auto-healer is possible though somewhat hard to custom tailor to a specific priest class. Comparing player health to prioritize healing isn't hard either. Despite that, I don't think I ever would create such a thing. Even for fun. Even as a proof of concept, it would only be expanding upon one area of scripting logic and very tedious to do.

I wouldn't mind the auto-buffing script though. I certainly don't enjoy clicking 12 buffs every time I die. Technically I already have the GUI and scripting needed to complete it done in another mod I no longer plan on releasing. The only problem is that someone able to figure out what I've done would easily be able to convert it into say, an auto-nuking script (which is what it does now). The auto-buffing script would actually be a few steps more complicated.

Originally Posted by nluerdarea

Also, what is rays of disintegration and why would you want to auto cancel it?

It's a level 80 wizard spell that picks up to 3 or 4 mages in your raid, interrupts their casting an casts a 3 second spell on their behalf. I'm not a mage so I couldn't say if that 3 sec spell is worth being forced upon them. But as I said in my preface, it was worth someone asking if there was a way to cancel it.

[Dolby]

Word has come directly from SOE that these interfaces do in fact break the EULA. I was under the impression that anything that could be made with the interface xml would be ok but I was wrong. I know EQAditu only made these interfaces with the best intentions so it saddens me to have to pull the work from our site.

For the future anything that automates game play is against the EULA even if it uses EQ2's own modifiable interface. So if you've downloaded these interfaces I suggest you remove them or you may face consequences of banishment from the game if they ever find out.

[Thundolfe]

How silly.

[Drumstix42]

Couldn't you just create a "master" button which essentially does the same exact thing as this, but you have to press it to cast cures appropriately? And then click it again afterward for remaining cures?

This would be totally user-dependent, not Auto, and would be like a smarter click-to-cure....

Problem solved. Don't let the game play for you!

[Retnaburn]

Typical SoE.

This is not unattended play. It doesn't break any rules directly but they have this archaic way of thinking so they'll rearrange the already hazy ToS to stop it.

[Drumstix42]

Originally Posted by Retnaburn

This is not unattended play.

You can't really argue that if you're not sitting at your computer, that it will still function.

[gm9]

Originally Posted by Drumstix42

Couldn't you just create a "master" button which essentially does the same exact thing as this, but you have to press it to cast cures appropriately? And then click it again afterward for remaining cures?

This would be totally user-dependent, not Auto, and would be like a smarter click-to-cure....

Not sure I understand this, do you mean a click-to-cure which only cures when you really need a cure and otherwise does nothing?

[Landiin]

I 'think' what he means is, just have one button you press. When you press that button it will cure any group member that needs curing and not have to actually click on a button for that group member.

Personally I don't see them banning for using such a script. heck I would say 90% of all crafters use some sort of macroing system. All the big time salers do I know for fact and SOE does nothing to them so /shrug.

Yes I know there are lots of crafters out there that do not use a macro system and do it correctly, just saying there are less of you then the other.

[Drumstix42]

Originally Posted by gm9

Not sure I understand this, do you mean a click-to-cure which only cures when you really need a cure and otherwise does nothing?

Yeah kinda what Landiin said.

It's would just be a button that when pressed would cast a cure if needed. If there's more than 1 cure being needed, you press it again after it's done casting.

That way it would be 1 cast per click, you would have to click it yourself, and if it had nothing to cast, it would do nothing.

[EQAditu]

Originally Posted by Drumstix42

Couldn't you just create a "master" button which essentially does the same exact thing as this, but you have to press it to cast cures appropriately? And then click it again afterward for remaining cures?

This would be totally user-dependent, not Auto, and would be like a smarter click-to-cure....

Problem solved. Don't let the game play for you!

It already had that exact thing. In fact you could use a slash command to put into a macro/hotkey to do it also.

I just apparently had the misfortune of trying to do more because I saw it was possible.

At this point though, any recreation of this mod would be under extreme scrutiny and probably poor preconceptions.

Essentially I'm not really willing to go through trial and error with the EULA judges to see if what I make is allowed. If someone can answer all these questions for me, then perhaps I could "fix" the mods to be safe. Until then, I'm not going to deal with the headache of guessing what SoE finds acceptable, because I already failed at that once.

If you know who I am, you already know I have bigger and better things to work on in my spare time. And at least I do not fear SoE coming down and ruining that also.

[Cantido]

In my opinion, Aditu, you're a really smart guy and I support all of the great work you've put out there to improve my EQ2 experience . I even downloaded your Anti-Rays of Failure scripting... and after reading this it makes me sad I had to wipe my hard drive for unreleated reasons. I would have kept that scripting. Rays of Failure is a nuisance, I'm glad there was a solution, for at least a little while.