Something that makes me wonder..

[Killarny]

One fairly widespread common trend in UIs (screenshots, mods, mod requests) that I've noticed in Everquest 2, but hardly any of the other games I've played, is the desire for UI layouts that have tons of information displayed.

It seems like a lot of Everquest 2 players prefer more cluttered UIs, with information ranging from Earth time/date to player resistance values to chat windows filling up nearly half of the screen to letterboxing that removes better than 40% of the screen space. Many of the UIs in the what does you current ui look like?(sic) thread feature screenshots of UIs that have lots of wasted space and obscured game area.

I've never played EQ1, but from the few screenshots I've seen of UIs from it, this trend existed back then as well.

I have never really noticed this trend in other games as much.

Personally I prefer transparent windows near the edges of my screen, to maximize my 'play area' and to give myself a greater unoccupied viewspace to look at the game.

I tend towards mods such as MookHUD, which provide more useful information without obscuring any game area, and without making the window any larger than needed. Humudce has his classic XP bars which, while increasing the size of the XP window, provide at-a-glance information that is needed often enough to make the trade-off worth it.

Information such as player resistances, AC, and such are on the hotkeyed player screen, so I don't need it showing all the time. The few times when I might actually care about the absolute value of my poison resistance, well, I can just push 'P' and look.

So, the short version of my question is this: Can anyone give me some insight on why many EQ2 players prefer large amounts of wasted gamespace cluttered with 'useless' information that is otherwise displayed on one-touch hotkeyed screens that don't permanently obscure your view?

Am I missing some crucial bit of understanding about Everquest that makes me wonder such things?

[Tarrant]

Everquest, Everquest 2 and any other MMORPG are as much about number manipulations as they are about the visuals you see in the game. When I'm a healer, I tend to spend most of my time looking at health bars and damage numbers, with occasional glances at the world to make sure I'm in the right place and orientation. I also chat a lot, in guild, in trader channels, in group, in tells. Chat windows are as important to me as any other bit of game information. As such, the UI covers a good portion of my screen real estate...about 1/3 - 2/5.

Compromises were made, yes. I'd love to have a bigger window into the world, but I'd sacrifice other things I need to see. In the greater scheme of things, a 23" television looks just like a 50" television after staring at it for an hour or so.

[Killarny]

Originally Posted by Tarrant

Everquest, Everquest 2 and any other MMORPG are as much about number manipulations as they are about the visuals you see in the game. When I'm a healer, I tend to spend most of my time looking at health bars and damage numbers, with occasional glances at the world to make sure I'm in the right place and orientation. I also chat a lot, in guild, in trader channels, in group, in tells. Chat windows are as important to me as any other bit of game information. As such, the UI covers a good portion of my screen real estate...about 1/3 - 2/5.

Compromises were made, yes. I'd love to have a bigger window into the world, but I'd sacrifice other things I need to see. In the greater scheme of things, a 23" television looks just like a 50" television after staring at it for an hour or so.

I understand, but I wasn't talking about information required to effectively play the game. I like seeing my health numbers too, and I have a chat window reserved specifically for combat messages. I also have a chat window for tells/groupchat, and another window for OOC and channel text. But, all of my chat windows are translucent and autohide when nothing is going on, so they are not impeding my gameplay all the time.

By the way, a 23" TV is not covering up parts of the picture from the 50" TV - it is shrinking the picture so that you are seeing the same information. This isn't what happens when you use the letterboxing in the game.

I don't want people to read this thinking that I'm challenging your UI styles; I'm not. I have just been observing trends since I joined the community, and I'm wondering what makes these types of UIs attractive for people.

[Drumstix42]

Well numbers, I guess people like to see HP and stuff lke that and compare. As for stats I dunno what it is... I will nver use a stat strip. I think some people just like to know what their stats are exactly, in case of someone asking? debuffs maybe more? It's hard to say. I use the letter box because I like the dark background, and no borders. I don't like transparent chat windows, I like to be able to read easily the text that comes through. I like compact, but I like style. I played EQ1 for about a year, I don't really like any 1 full hud, but rather mix and match stuff. Everyone has their own style, but I guess just a lot of people like the same kind of thing in the 2 games

[Quib]

I played EQ1 for 5 years (and still technically play it, just have been engrossed with EQ2 recently) and in EQ1 I preferred the layout like you do, 3D render full screen for maximum visiblility with windows obscuring as little as possible. I was also a UI modder and it was really ahrd to figure out what people wanted; I apparently never figured that out seeing as my complete UI didn't have a particularly large following (screenshot).

With EQ2, I don't consider the whole screen my viewing area. I have the resolution way higher than I did for EQ1 and only consider about 1/4 of the screen in the middle of my monitor to be the viewing area I care about, UI bits can litter the edges of my screen. I use the letterbox both because I don't care what's at the top and bottom edges of my view (if I need to see, I simply pageup/down to look and I'm a tallest height troll so I'm just looking down 90% of the time) and also because it blurs textures a little, which I like (I prefer blur and smoothing to crisp lines and edges).

I don't know why my perception underwent this change, maybe others are like me and I like them, where we don't consider everything in the possible field of view to really matter, only what we're looking right at.

Also I play in first person (camera) rather than third person.

Quib

[Killarny]

Maybe it would be different if I was a fighter :P

As a mage type, I value high visibility around my character - I'm always scared something is going to wander too close and aggro me, hehe

[ger]

I asked a long-time EQ1-player friend a similar question about resists after seeing so many mods that feature them. His answer was that it was an easy way to check for debuffs in combat situations.

Personally, I guess I have a fairly large portion of my view taken up by the UI…but most of it is what I'd consider necessary. Long target/implied target windows so I can tell which arts to use when playing my swashbuckler, or how damaged the MT is when playing my inquisitor. Double XP bars for when I'm playing my summoner/alchemist. A chat window for generic spatial, and another for tells/group/raid/guild (although I'm no longer in a guild) but both of those autohide. A slightly extended player window to include HP/PP percentages so I can tell when to cut and run, and which combat art/spells I've got the juice left to use. It's only really with my swashbuckler that I need to be able to see a decent amount of rendered space to line up those rear attacks…other than that I fall back on my MUD instincts and go by the text as much as the graphics.

For those curious: my UI

[Hushed]

About the only bit of information that is 'needless' that I like to have on the screen is resists/stats. This comes from playing EQ1. Many times I could glance over my stats, and know if I was missing crucial raid buffs without looking down my buff window and trying to figure out buff is missing. Another time it was useful was timing disciplines (large melee burst damage). A quick glance over my primary melee stats and I would easily know if it was the optimum to use a discipline.

Is this necessary in EQ2? Not at all. After playing a game where stats drastically change your damage for over 3 years, I can't help but think that they still matter.

[Humudce]

Originally Posted by Killarny

Can anyone give me some insight on why many EQ2 players prefer large amounts of wasted gamespace cluttered with 'useless' information that is otherwise displayed on one-touch hotkeyed screens that don't permanently obscure your view?

Am I missing some crucial bit of understanding about Everquest that makes me wonder such things?

I played EQ1 for almost 4 years before EQ2, and yes it's true most of the UI's for EQ1 had alot of info on the screen compared to the Default UI. I think in EQ1 the reason for that was many of the windows that you would have to open up were very large windows, so if you could display the same info on screen in a much smaller space all the time it was prefered by EQ1 players instead of opening up alot of windows. I only really did 2 Complete UI's for EQ1, and followed what alot of others did displaying alot of information on the screen.

I have not had the inspiration to do a complete UI for EQ2. I am how ever interested in doing UI Components, such as my XP Bars, Player Window, and Knowledge Books. I try very hard to keep them simple and unobsucred with an overage of information. When someone stated that they really didn't need the Earth Time on my XP Bars I made versions of Both without Earth Time. (I play Full Screen 90% of the time so I like the RT Clock). But I tried to keep the info to a minimum ammount. My Player Window Mod has my Power (Number/Number) and Power %, and Health (Number/Number) and Health %, because I had a guildie ask for that info, and I prefer knowing that information all the time, as I know where my Health and Power are when I'm casting spells on my Templar, or using Combat Arts on my Warrior. The other information such as Resists I rarely look at unless I win a new piece of armor and want to see how it increased my Resistances.

I am not a minimalist by any means I have alot of stuff on my Screen (2 Chat Windows with 6 tabs each) and 6 Hot Button Bars (showing my Spells and Tradeskill). I do not use the all out extra info mods though. But some like that kind of window because they are used to it, from EQ1.

[Killarny]

Originally Posted by Humudce

I am how ever interested in doing UI Components, such as my XP Bars, Player Window, and Knowledge Books. I try very hard to keep them simple and unobsucred with an overage of information.

I'd just like to point out that your XP bar mods are great for just that reason.. no flashy graphics or color changes, just the required information and nothing more.

Actually, I do like Earth time as well, since I play full screen too, but again that is a sacrifice. I don't like having 'real world' references on my UI for fear of destroying immersion, but alas, the night goes too quickly, so I must have Earth time