EQ 2 UI functionality and WoW

Eloora · #1 06-07-2005, 02:52 PM

Dunno if this has been discussed before, but I just wanted to pose some general questions about the functionality of eq 2's ui versus wow's, and how people playing EQ 2 feel about the differences.

For those of you who have played both games or at least had a chance to study both UI's, you'd realize that although the two UI's are very different right down to the code language used to build them, out of the box, WoW's UI doesn't really compare to EQ 2's UI in versatility and customization. But do some digging around and you will realize that there is a whole world of possibilities when it comes to UI mods for the WoW UI.
The WoW UI mods (called add-ons) such as Cosmos and the ones found at Curse Gaming, which is pretty much EQ2interface for WoW (pages load very slowly but worth checking out), actually DO stuff, reveal information in real time and after fights, and generally make your in-game life a little easier. When you look at UI mods for EQ 2, while some are creative, attactive and informative, they really aren't breaking any new ground on functionality or reorganization. Now I realize that this isn't necessarily the fault of the UI modders, because it seems like EQ 2's UI is for the most part closed off from major overhaul due to the way the devs designed it. I feel that this is a major design flaw, though I guess there must be reasons for it. I would also like to believe that nothing is set in stone, and with enough interest, EQ 2's UI can become more flexible.

I want to know how you all feel about this. Would you like to see things like the following implemented into EQ2's UI?

Automated organizers for items in your bags (tradeskiller's dream IMO)
An accurate in game dps watcher and reporter that kept track of kills and time spent killing
A smart self-cast ability for spells and buffs (tied to a key like Alt for periodic use, or always on when you have no target or an improper target for the spell)
Loot windows that move to where your mouse is for quick looting
Commands that improve pet behavior
Counters that kept track of components needed to cast spells (such as oddysey stones and nil crystals), and let you know when you're running low/out.
Dynamic buff names and timers on all buffs, with different ways of displaying each based on your preference
Equipment comparison tooltips (hover your mouse over an item and see its tooltip and also the tooltips of the items of the same slot you have equipped currently next to it)

There are too many great WoW add-ons to list, but those are a few that I like, and I'd like to see similar things make their way to EQ 2. I don't want to see the level of automation that some WoW mods have, but I would like to be really truly impressed with an EQ 2 UI mod and it's capabilities, like I have been with WoW's.

Regards,

***Dolby*** · #2 06-07-2005, 02:55 PM

Moved from the interface "request" forum to the " UI User Discussion" forum.

The way I see it EQ2's UI is the best if you want to change the look and feel but if you want to change the function wow's interface system takes the cake. It would be nice if EQ2 added support for .lua but it would need a ton of testing because .lua scripts were exploited to heck in WoW beta.

ps. Wowinterface.com is better imo they dont take authors mods and post them w/o them knowning to jump start their site. Cosmos did some shadey things during beta so I dont trust them (I didnt like auto rudeing every time I saw some one from a certain guild they didnt like).

Laffs · #3 06-07-2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:

An accurate in game dps watcher and reporter that kept track of kills and time spent killing

That is about the only feature in the list IMO that is lacking...

The rest would automate the game to the extent that all you realy have to do is select what mob you want to attack or what item you want to make... (well almost)

Maybe its because of all this automation in WoW that peeps seem to get board real fast?... Thats just what I have read and heard though.. Personaly I dont know because I have never played it... So I will retain a Neutral view point on that.

But I do agree that the UI could use being more flexible but along with flexabilty comes the risk of exploits... There is still a lot we can do and peeps have done to the UI and if ALL of the Dynamic Data worked we could do a hell of a lot more!

Eloora · #4 06-08-2005, 09:20 AM

The examples of the mods that I listed above are actually pretty far from crossing the too much automation line considering other ones that are out there (apparently there is a mod that can "decide" how to heal your target based on your available mana and the target's health).
Also I am not a fan of cosmos anymore, but back in the day it was pretty much the only readily available and regularly updated mod one could get for wow. It's a bit of a clunker now and not as useful as other mods like Ultimate UI or Gypsy or CT mods, but it's pretty well known so that's why I made an example of it.

Maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling I'm not alone when I say that I wouldn't dream of playing wow without certain add ons included first thing. Because so many are available, it feels like something's missing to play with the default. Although on one extreme you have the exploit risk and mods with a high level of automation that removes a certain degree of player skill from the game, on the other hand you have add ons that take the necessity to have a rock solid memory out of the equasion, and let you play your game a little more peacefully. Anything that makes remembering buff/debuff timers a little easier, especially if you play a class such as Enchanters, just seems like releif to me, not exploitation.

Has the EQ2 UI dev made an appearance lately?

Regards

Orolain · #5 06-08-2005, 10:17 AM

There was a comment in another post about 'the interface playing the game for you'. I gave this some thought, and to some extent it's true. But like you said, there are some mods that I could never play WoW without (60 Hunter, 60 Priest), things like CT Raid Assist and Raid Tracker.

It's been hard trying to transition to EQ2, I'm enjoying the experience so far but there are a few things that I miss, like the mini-map with party icons for positioning. I find in EQ2 I get seperated from the group once and a while and it's a pita to find out where they went.

I do agree that some of the WoW mods were over the top, and probably automated way too much, like Gatherer and some of the pet managing mods, but there were a few that I'd like to see in EQ2 that should be possible, like:

CooldownCount: display a timer on the buttons with cooldowns over x seconds, rather than the vertical shading that makes it really hard to tell when an ability is ready.

CT Raid Assist had an option to let the group leader specify the Main Assist (up to 5 of them), and then you could just bind a key to assist MT1, assist MT2, etc. In EQ2, the macros seem limited to 3 commands, so I end up having to use F2-F6 then press my assist key (rebound to F since it's what I'm used to).

Changing or adding chat text. I really wish this was possibly in EQ2, I really don't see the need for a "Foobar says in out of character 'lol'." when a simple "OOC> Foobar: lol" would fill up less space and allow for less line wrapping.

I've only been playing EQ2 for less than a week (17 Predator), so my experience is somewhat limited.

wallofchaos · #6 07-04-2005, 02:25 PM

I love the way WoW's UI is. Hands down it is really amazing.
Im talking about the custom mods and stuff you can do on
your own to make it the way you want.

EQ2's UI really sucks. But I love EQ2 so what do I do?

I deal with it unfortunately.

I currently use Goldi's UI which the only thing i really like on it is the
Start button thing with all the little nice tools to click in there.
Performance and bags showhood ect ect ect.
Oh yea and cant forget about the little Minimize button
on all the windows. thats nice!

I am VERY new at EQ2's UI.
Maybe some things can still be done.

I see some UI's on here that look nice but when you read the install
file it seems like you have to spend around 2 hours trying to
install a darn UI. Maybe I just have a case of ADD and cant handle
all the instructions.

Goldi's was so simple to install Hats off to him.

taco-man · #7 07-04-2005, 02:53 PM

although i cant comment on how the WoW ui is now that WoW has been released, when i played WoW in the closed beta/alpha for about 6 months cosmos was around and was much less developed when i se it then it is now, but the main thing i liked about it was that you could tell it you wanted to make more than 1 tradeskill item and as soon as you finished making the item it would start the next one until it did however many you had set it for.

Magus · #8 07-04-2005, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallofchaos

I see some UI's on here that look nice but when you read the install
file it seems like you have to spend around 2 hours trying to
install a darn UI. Maybe I just have a case of ADD and cant handle
all the instructions.

It takes about 5 minutes, if that.

If it takes you any longer, you're doing something wrong.

Eloora · #9 07-06-2005, 01:12 PM

The WoW UI add ons feel like more of a modification and improvement of function than the EQ 2 UI mods. In a lot of WoW add ons there really isn't much in the way of visual modification, but more of an improvement in function that goes right down to the nuts and bolts of the UI. I feel like in EQ 2 we can do little more than reskin and rearrange windows, adding numbers and %'s here and there.

I sure wish I knew what Bobble had up his sleeve for the future of his UI

malvolio11 · #10 07-07-2005, 08:44 AM

Im in agreement on some of those issues. Yes dps counter would be more than nice, and yes automated organizers for bags would kick ass. But sometimes those things are not in the cards. Depending on the interface some of those things are hard to make and might not be worth the effort.
But it should be something someone with more knowledge than this soldier should look into. Behind you all the way.
On the WoW front Ive played both and I found there to be no comparison. In WoW I looked like every other person of my class everyone was using the same gear. I bought the best stuff at the store then moved to the next town and did the same. I found it boring. Of course being an eq1 junky im slightly biased. Gameplay tells me which game to play UI is just a cool feature.

Pyroman · #11 07-07-2005, 09:39 AM

Well if you want a DPS counter
Combat Stats
This is actually pretty accurate if the circumstances of a fight ending are kept constant. Say if you are killing groups of mobs and getting that bonus experience and have it set to measure DPS by that bonus. If you kill a solo mob it wouldn't measure it accurately. Hopefully someone will make a program like EQWatcher for EQ1.

The big thing here is with UI's like WoW or AC back in the day is that you can add a lot of stuff that automates playing and basically helps you make bots. Buff/port bots in AC anyone? Those features mentioned for the WoW UI, in my opinion, are a high price to pay for what exploits could be done through the system. And their not going to track down the majority of hackers when they have so many subscribers.

Its my understanding that SoE could put these things in the game themselves. I would like to see some sort of new UI feature added every other live update chosen by the players via their in game vote system they used for the Station Exchange poll. I doubt that will happen though.

Orolain · #12 07-07-2005, 10:14 AM

The whole 'people would write bots' argument is getting very old. People will write bots whether there is an UI API or not.

The fact is that with a basic API/Event system in place a lot of the drudgery could be removed. I don't agree with the WoW mods that would control your pets or auto-debuff group members, but wouldn't it be nice to have a way to say 'if the player is in a trade skill instance, switch to the trade skill hotkey banks and hide the useless UI elements like the group window, etc'.

I really like the assist system in EQ2, much easier to use than WoW, no more clicking the MT and hitting assist every few seconds, I can just leave the MT targetted for the duration of the encounter and fire away. In WoW there were API function to determine if the target was friendly or hostile, or a group member.

While EQ2 has defaulted a lot of this behaviour when it comes to casting bene/dmg spells, in WoW with the API you had a choice. 'I have a mob targetted, and I'm casting a heal spell, should it default to heal me or wait for input from me on which group member I should heal?' We're not talking about AI mods that would heal the player with the lowest health (though that was possible), we're talking about the freedom to change the way you play, not the skill level or effort required.

Things like Equipment Compare, when I mouseover a piece of armor in the Broker window, it would really be nice to have a tooltip beside it that showed my currently equipped item beside it, but instead I have to open my inventory window and mouse back and forth until I get a feel for whether it's an upgrade or not. Drudgery ... that's what I want UI mods to improve, not simply eat up visual real estate. Bag mods that display all of the slots in one window, rather than 6 moveable windows with 14 slots, or maybe I just want a scroll list of my inventory like the one the vendor interface provides.

skeletonkeys4me · #13 07-13-2005, 10:04 AM

~me personal.. i think the best thing eq2 to add to its ui would be a freakin quest share system like WoW has.
i have one toon i static with a friend so when we have to go quest hunting, we have to do it together. if we had quest share, i could run around gathering quests while he wasnt on and then just give them to him and we could go do more important stuff... like completing the quests

~it would also be nice if we could get a checkmark or something next to quests that are completed/just need to be turned in. it sucks when youre scrolling thru 50 quests just tryin to find the ones pertaining to the zone youre in that havent been completed and ur clicking thru 20 quests that are done (i.e. Antonica or Commonlands)
~buff timers would be nice too, specially for us casters

Quote:

Orolain
Things like Equipment Compare, when I mouseover a piece of armor in the Broker window, it would really be nice to have a tooltip beside it that showed my currently equipped item beside it

AMEN! x1000

Quote:

Orolain
Bag mods that display all of the slots in one window, rather than 6 moveable windows with 14 slots, or maybe I just want a scroll list of my inventory like the one the vendor interface provides.

i actually got on here specifically to see if there was anything like that on here.. i looked but i dont see anything.. anyone know if a mod exists for this??

Quote:

Laffs
Maybe its because of all this automation in WoW that peeps seem to get board real fast?... Thats just what I have read and heard though..

i played wow for a few months. got to 60, got my epic mount, did the dungeons, lvld 3 more toons over 40 (3 of the 4 toons have maxed crafting lvl).. i think ppl get so bored (cuz i did).. imho, cuz its soooooooooo easy and quick to get to 60 its just not funny. in a matter of weeks, maybe 3, u could get to 60. basically theres no longterm shelf life in the game. once u get to 60 and get your epic gear (so sad everyone looks the same)... only thing left is pvp arenas and raising alts. that gets boring real fast. and as far as i know, theres no expected date for them to add new endgame content/higher lvl cap. eq2 takes work and a LOT more time to get to the end game. so when u decide to make an alt, it kinda seems new/fresh(to me anyway).

i left eq2 a couple months after launch, when they kept screwing up the updates/patches.. and after that one time they hotfixed a bug into the game and screwed ppls quest journals, tradeskill recipes, and some instance accesses and then said they knew about it, but didnt close the servers and said they werent gonna fix it... i said f-this and left shortly after. i STILL believe SOE doesnt give a crap about its customers. the game is truly awesome, but SOE can go to hell. but WoW got severely boring and theres nothing else out there i havent played thats worth my time or money, so i came back.. hehe (had to rant)

p.s. Cosmos is triflin

droo · #14 07-13-2005, 10:26 AM

I'd still love to see a lag/ping meter in Eq2

Marielle · #15 07-25-2005, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eloora

Dun
Automated organizers for items in your bags (tradeskiller's dream IMO)
An accurate in game dps watcher and reporter that kept track of kills and time spent killing
A smart self-cast ability for spells and buffs (tied to a key like Alt for periodic use, or always on when you have no target or an improper target for the spell)
Loot windows that move to where your mouse is for quick looting
Commands that improve pet behavior
Counters that kept track of components needed to cast spells (such as oddysey stones and nil crystals), and let you know when you're running low/out.
Dynamic buff names and timers on all buffs, with different ways of displaying each based on your preference
Equipment comparison tooltips (hover your mouse over an item and see its tooltip and also the tooltips of the items of the same slot you have equipped currently next to it)

I love the idea of automated-item organizers. I think that it would make crafting and sorting out inventory much easier. The DPS-log would be helpful to, to track progress etc. A lot of these add-ons would be useful and helpful in my opinion.

-Marielle

instant · #16 07-19-2006, 05:54 PM

EQ2 and WOWs ui are miles appart.

WOW's UI customizability is great.
EQ2s UI customizability is crap.

Which should be apparent to everyone just from the lack of UIs and "addons" you have in EQ2.

It is a shame really. EQ2s could and should have been much better.

WOW has set the bar on how a MMORPG UI should be possible to modify and extend, and anything that follows suit better provide the same.