T.King Official Public Statement regarding the EQ/VGInterface OGaming Acquisition

[Cairenn]

Monday, August 29th 2005 – T.King Official Public Statement regarding the EQ/VGInterface OGaming Acquisition

As many of you have already correctly assumed - I was totally unaware of the EQ/VGInterface OGaming acquisition until after it had already taken place. I even signed up as a member on the VGInterface.com website/portal without any knowledge of what had happened. Since EQInterface.com contains a rather large amount of my art/work (literally hundreds). I had assumed I would be consulted before something like this would have taken place. Apparently, Jim (Kudane) the owner/proprietor of EQ/VGInterface had made several attempts to contact me by phone, which I was able to confirm in my call logs. I had not returned calls due to a busy schedule.

I haven't had time to deal with this issue head on due to a very busy schedule. But I have made it crystal clear in the past, that I do not wish my art to be connected to any commercially owned or operated website(s) without my express written consent. Also, I have yet to determine whether or not 1.) My artwork was used as a consideration of value placed in the purchase/acquisition of the EQInterface site, and 2.) Whether or not my artwork was a part of the acquisition (which as you can imagine would be quite bad considering my artwork is copyright without exception.)

As many of you already know - Cairenn has been a moderator on my website for several years now, and I've come to trust her as a good friend. She has kept her work on the EQInterface site completely separated from my art forum. She has been a valuable asset in keeping my forums organized. I have yet to speak with Cairenn about her role as a moderator on my art messageboard following what has transpired, due to the potential conflict of interest it presents with her continued role of administrating and moderating the EQ/VGInterface sites. But I have decided that since she is a friend, I will first take time to speak with all parties involved, before I make any decisions.

I don't think it would be fair to players who are unaware of what has transpired at EQInterface, to completely uproot my work since it is deeply sewn within hundreds of fan/player-made user-interface modifications. But I also do not think my work should be left in place as-is without first discussing the issue specifically with Jim (Kudane), and working something out that is in the best interest of the fans/players whom I made the art for to begin with. Perhaps let the players vote and decide the future of my art there?

I will post an update as soon as I've had an opportunity to speak with all parties involved directly. For those of you wondering about my extremely busy schedule. A great deal of my time has been spent taking care of urgent family matters of a profound nature, including my sons weekly therapy.

I'll wrap this up with a link to an interesting read about copyrighted art:
http://archives.thedaily.washington....opyrights.html

~Tom King

Original post here

[Landiin]

Hmm why would they consult you any way? You are one of many people that have their work on these sites. We put our work here for others to freely use and to help others out.

It also seems they did try to contact you when they didn't have. I am sorry you are having pressing family issues but they can’t hold off business till you decide to contact them back. They also sure didn't try to contact the other 100+ people that put their work on their sites and you are no more important then they are.

I very serious doubt that your work had any thing to do with ogaming.com buying these sites. It most likely was do to the 100s of people that troll these sites a day.

So go ahead and take you toys home because someone didn’t play the way you want them to. The rest of us will keep ours here because we like to give to the community with out strings attached.

[teddyboy420]

Landiin, the tone of your post is completely uncalled for, and it's quite obvious you don't know a thing about who Tom King is, and what he has done for the interface community. You also probably aren't aware that he is an actual artist of some renown and was one of (if not) THE first artist to do very in depth UI skins using his artwork. There hasn't been anything like his UI work since he was made to stop putting out UI's for other games due to his hiring at at Sigil.

That being said, he is a true artist in every sense of the word and takes his work quite seriously, which he has every right to. And you also plainly don't understand what he is actually saying in that release. He has NEVER wanted any of his work to be associated with a "commercial" site, or to be sold for any reason. He isn't asking that his work be taken down though, yet, b/c he knows people love his work and MANY people use portions of it. All he wants to make sure of is that the rights to HIS art wasn't contained in the sale of the **Interface sites, or are being used in a way that he does not agree with.

Tom is just looking out for himself and his artwork, and at the same time he is doing his best to ensure that the people that love his work will still be able to use it. Check out EQInterface.com and check out the featured artist section, T.King and Remelio's work was the very first to be featured, and it remains some of the most downloaded work on that site. He obviously wishes it remains that way, he is just saying he's looking into things to ensure that his past work will always remain freely downloadable and the same conditions remain on these sites as it did when he put his work up. He is completley within his right to make sure his work is used within his guidlines and you come here and berate him without knowing what exactly he's saying? Do some research before you get on your soapbox and try to talk down to one of the best interface creators and artists around when all he's trying to do is lookout for his work and ensure it remains as it always was.

[Dolby]

Landiin, Tking is a well respected artist in the Everquest community. He now even has a job designing and making the interface for a new game coming out. He hasnt been able to make custom interfaces for Eq2 because his hands have been tied. So I can understand some one from just the EQ2 or WoW community not understanding. So in keeping with the site rules please do not flame any one and I dont think that was your intention Landiin but it may be taken that way.

Tking's number one concern is for you people that use the interfaces.

All I can do is assure you that interfaces will always be free as long as I'm involed with the sites and that ogaming does not own any of the interfaces. We are kinda like a hosting company and what they purchased was the hosting services we made. They didnt purchase any ones work thats posted in our downloads area. Its not ours to sell.

[Matia]

Not to mention the possible hassles it could cause for him as an employee of one of the companies in the industry with his artwork being used in other companies websites.

[Landiin]

Yes I know who he is and what his art is. With that being said I don't care who he is, he/she is acting like a big selfish baby. He can take his junk art and leave for all I care. But this isn't my site and its up to Dolby and crew to kiss his arse if they want. I really don't care, just don't come here acting like he is the only reason why ogaming would buy the place or he is the reason why it has so many people here because he isn't.

Nm I have said enuff, peoplel like him just get under my skin.

[Dolby]

Landiin, I asked nicely for you to stop with the personal atks/flaming. You know we dont allow name calling.

Its fine if you dont agree with the statment but please do it in a civil manner.

Thank you.

[Lange]

I was going to write a little bit more than this but I had forgotten that King is actually working (for pay) for Vanguard and that may cause issues for him.

I do want to make one comment though re: the manner in which O'gaming is being portrayed.

O'gaming may have additional options available for paying customers (I honestly don't know) and I know they do accept advertisements, but everyone I know who plays EQ2 has used and continues to use O'gaming's quest, item and bestiary resources and NO ONE I know pays for them. That sure strikes me as the same type of open access mentality of EQ2interface.com.

From everything I have seen, O'gaming is not Allakhazams and I, personally, have no problems with them taking some ad dollars to support their site, this site and any other sites in an effort to continue to provide the community with free resources like the O'Gaming database and EQ2interface.com.

I resent the assertion that O'gaming is a greedy evil megacorporation. If they start trying to charge for access to their databases or to the interfaces then I will have a problem with them but because they use ad dollars to pay for their costs and maybe even some sort of sallary..? Com'mon...

[Landiin]

Sorry Dolby no flame or personal attack(/boggle) was intended by my first posts and not really with my 2nd either just defending my first post.

[TKing]

First of all, this has indeed caused more problems than you know for me. What I have done is publicly acknowledged that I had absolutely no part of - or prior knowledge of the acquisition.

Secondly, I have absolutely every right to insure that my artwork is not a part of some long-term plan that includes premium services to access what I have freely provided in the past. This includes insuring that it was not sold along with the database or other components of the portals.

In my official statement, I provided a link to a University Press article that touches on the issues of; while one person may not be making profit from a transaction, someone actually is in the process.

You think this is about greed or arrogance? I'm struggling to pay enormous medical expenses for my son every week, while there stands a chance that my hard work over the years has (undeniably) added to the value of a sale that has profited others, and for all I know was sold without my permission. I somehow get the feeling I’m not the only one who would be concerned.

Perhaps a hard working artist, looking out for the people he has given to freely for years, including the well-being of his family sickens you. But what I have done is step forward to insure that my work remains the way I intended it to be.

[Deann]

Originally Posted by Landiin

Yes I know who he is and what his art is. With that being said I don't care who he is, he/she is acting like a big selfish baby. He can take his junk art and leave for all I care. But this isn't my site and its up to Dolby and crew to kiss his arse if they want. I really don't care, just don't come here acting like he is the only reason why ogaming would buy the place or he is the reason why it has so many people here because he isn't.

Nm I have said enuff, peoplel like him just get under my skin.

I fail to see how someone "like him" can get under your skin. He is simply trying to ensure that his art remains free for the users he has provided art to for years. He also wants to verify that they are not profiting from his art as it was not intended for resale in any form. If that makes him a "big selfish baby" in your eyes then you are severely warped. As far as referring to his art as "junk", I've taken a look at yours... You have no room to criticize.

I don't believe anyone involved with this site or any of the others in the OGaming network have ever gone so far as to "kiss his arse". As many of the team involved in the network are his friends he has done nothing but treat them with the utmost respect. Something you clearly lack as you could learn a lot artistically from the artist in question.

He does not believe that his art would define the acquisition of the network, however, it is undeniable that the majority of interfaces provided by the network are either his works or products that contain portions of his work. While EQ2 is not something he has been able to contribute to due to his current work status, it does not diminish the capacity his work has taken here.

I resent the assertion that O'gaming is a greedy evil megacorporation. If they start trying to charge for access to their databases or to the interfaces then I will have a problem with them but because they use ad dollars to pay for their costs and maybe even some sort of sallary..? Com'mon...

In no way shape or form has he ever given the impression that he feels they are a "greedy evil megacorporation". Again, he simply wants to ensure that his works remain free to the public. Everyone has the right to earn an income from the work the do, but when someone provides a free service to a community, they have every right to ask for verification that it will, in fact, remain free in every way.

[Kamintar]

Well put, Deann. Couldn't have said it better than myself.

Landiin, I thought you were a decent fellow for a while. I thought that your UI was going to be upstanding, respected, and well taken care of. Sure, the UI was great, but the attitude I just saw from you has really ruined my viewpoint of you.

As far as referring to his art as "junk", I've taken a look at yours... You have no room to criticize.

Amen. I've been around Tom's work since EQ1 first started and he first started doing art. He has more skill than you (or most anyone here) will probably have. I envy his talens. I am a decent artist myself, but at least I can come up with my own work...

[Landiin]

First off this is not a flame or an attack on any person(s)! It’s just how I interpreted the OP.

I have no issue with him wanting to keep his art free. I applaud him for doing so. Maybe I miss read his intent in his post. I have had no issue with TKing up until this point. So let me break it down what I read into the post.

As many of you have already correctly assumed - I was totally unaware of the EQ/VGInterface OGaming acquisition until after it had already taken place. I even signed up as a member on the VGInterface.com website/portal without any knowledge of what had happened. Since EQInterface.com contains a rather large amount of my art/work (literally hundreds). I had assumed I would be consulted before something like this would have taken place. Apparently, Jim (Kudane) the owner/proprietor of EQ/VGInterface had made several attempts to contact me by phone, which I was able to confirm in my call logs. I had not returned calls due to a busy schedule.

I interpreted it as:
Hey being these guys did tell me they was going to sell off their website and being I am pro and have gave my art/work ( a heck of a lot of art/work) they should of told me before doing any thing of the sort. Oh they tried to contact me but I was to busy to get back with them…

I haven't had time to deal with this issue head on due to a very busy schedule. But I have made it crystal clear in the past, that I do not wish my art to be connected to any commercially owned or operated website(s) without my express written consent. Also, I have yet to determine whether or not 1.) My artwork was used as a consideration of value placed in the purchase/acquisition of the EQInterface site, and 2.) Whether or not my artwork was a part of the acquisition (which as you can imagine would be quite bad considering my artwork is copyright without exception.)

I interpreted it as:
My work is so good that the only reason ogaming.com bought the site was because of my work. And farther-more my art work better part of the acquisition. (This I would agree with)

As many of you already know - Cairenn has been a moderator on my website for several years now, and I've come to trust her as a good friend. She has kept her work on the EQInterface site completely separated from my art forum. She has been a valuable asset in keeping my forums organized. I have yet to speak with Cairenn about her role as a moderator on my art messageboard following what has transpired, due to the potential conflict of interest it presents with her continued role of administrating and moderating the EQ/VGInterface sites. But I have decided that since she is a friend, I will first take time to speak with all parties involved, before I make any decisions.

I interpreted is as:
Me and Cairenn was good friends but not good enough that I trust here to keep making good decisions on my own forums, well just have to see if she plays the way I like or not.

I don't think it would be fair to players who are unaware of what has transpired at EQInterface, to completely uproot my work since it is deeply sewn within hundreds of fan/player-made user-interface modifications. But I also do not think my work should be left in place as-is without first discussing the issue specifically with Jim (Kudane), and working something out that is in the best interest of the fans/players whom I made the art for to begin with. Perhaps let the players vote and decide the future of my art there?

I interpreted it as: (from the tone of the 3 above paragraphs)
*fear tactics on*
I may just take my stuff and go, but I have to pretend that I’ll let the people here at interface take a poll on it.

I will post an update as soon as I've had an opportunity to speak with all parties involved directly. For those of you wondering about my extremely busy schedule. A great deal of my time has been spent taking care of urgent family matters of a profound nature, including my sons weekly therapy

.

I interpreted it as:
Well no other way to interpret this. TKing sorry about the urgent family matters and hope and pray all is ok with your son.


That was my reason for posting, I normally don’t post on things like this, guess I was in a mood today.

If this wasn’t your intent them /bow I do apologize.

[Iadien]

King shouldn't have to defend himself in any way. He's only doing what any artist should do in a similar situation.

[acaylian]

you guys are missing the point of his post really. if you didn't know, ogaming is also otherly known as IGE (www.ige.com). tom is just being professional and not blatantly stating it but i'm probably correct in making this assumption:

tom supports the community fully as obviously seen by the amount of time he's put into it. tom does NOT support IGE selling platinum and other items, and turning eq/vginterface into another cash cow. thus, he probably does not want them to profit off his material in any possible way shape or form.

i wouldn't either.

[Krylosis]

1) YOU GO TOM! you do great work in what ever endevor you're doing, and what ever you decide you must do, please know that *I* and many more will stand behind you 100%.

2) anyone that thinks that this was something he dreamed up just to get his name mentioned needs to get a reality check. *IF* those that thought that TOM was being selfish were to have something somewhere posted and found out later the work was part of a 3rd party deal, you'd do the exact same.

3) Cairenn (spelling corrected) posted this to let us know what Tom had said. and tom may be friends with him(her? sorry i'm not 100% clear on thathehehe) but his work is very important and valuable. so tom's point is that he needs to talk to cairenn about things to get a feel on how things lay professionally. (added) but i'm sure they will remain friends =)

4) lastly, look at many of the ui's that people build, many and i'd say about 50-60% use something of tom's if it isn't more than one thing, even EQ2 has some things TOM made re-done to fit EQ2 formating. you may not have intended to start flaming but don't interpert anyone else's words till you have walked their same path and same trials and tribulations. =) (note i didn't even know ogaming was IGE.com wow.. .the things you learn)

oh and the very last but most important: TOM: my thoughts go with you and your family (due to the medical problems your son has) I wish all your family well and long life. =) and I love your work...

Krylosis.

[Trip]

What are you talking about Landiin? His art is amazing!! Go to his website.

You MUST have been in a bad mood, because you just don't make sense. There's always someone out there wanting to stifle a legitimate post. Go figure.

If I were an artist, I would have done the same thing and he has every right! I never even heard of Tking before now, and that's the way I feel about the issue.

My question is this: Did they aquire everyone's email address, as well? Hope you like spam, or have a disposable email address.

Trip

[taco-man]

Originally Posted by Trip

My question is this: Did they aquire everyone's email address, as well? Hope you like spam, or have a disposable email address.

Trip

no they didnt heres a quote from dolby as well as a link (in the post) to the privacy policy

Originally Posted by Dolby

We are still in control of the user database and I don’t foresee any one else having access ever... but please feel free to change your email as our site doesn’t send out that much email and its all optional (ie, the new favorite email update, email when you receive a pm, etc).

Please take note that this privacy statement is still in effect and if anything changes I'll be the first to let every one know. http://www.eq2interface.com/?page=privacy

[Vandiin]

Originally Posted by Landiin

... he/she is acting like a big selfish baby. He can take his junk art and leave for all I care...

You say you didn't intend to flame, yet there is no other way of interpreting this statement. If you intend to submit a statement like this in the future, please do not hit the submit button.

Back to the original topic.

Tom, I couldn't agree with you more. I would not want any of my artwork (yes, I am an artist as well, just not computer related, and not nearly as well known as you) to be turned into a profit for someone (especially not IGE) when it was intended to be free. I enjoyed your artwork greatly when I played EQ1. It made my gaming experience much more enjoyable, and I would like those playing EQ to still enjoy it as I did. Freely.

I hope (and believe, with the credibility of Dolby, Kudane, Cairenn, etc.) that this all works out as intended. I also wish you the best with your son, from one father to another.

[Laffs]

To be honest when I 1st read the OP I kind of interpreted it the same way Landiin did =/ and didn’t quite fully comprehend what was being said until after reading all the other posts concerning the matter, So in short it looks like Landiin "got the wrong end of the stick" so to speak lol....... And spoke his mind then when all the facts were presented realised his misinterpretation and apologized... Personally I don’t think anyone should think any less of Landiin for an honest mistake... Just my 2cents

Anyways,

I knew T.King had been around for a long time making stuff but I didnt know to what extent untill I visited the link to his site he posted all I can so is "wow" his artwork is bloody good!!

To close I would just like to say I hope stuff works out with your son T.King

*EDIT* corrected a few spelling mistakes hehe

[Clink]

you know TKing isnt the only person who created UI "art" and coding for eq, eq2, wow interfaces.

I have yet to determine whether or not 1.) My artwork was used as a consideration of value placed in the purchase/acquisition of the EQInterface site, and 2.) Whether or not my artwork was a part of the acquisition

If there is special consideration given to TKing it should also be given to every other person who upload original work.

[Lange]

I decided to continue to bite my tongue for the most part. If I may give just one piece of "food for thought" though, Mr. King:


Free portfolio ---> Paying job


This is true in advertising (comprehensive portfolio required of ALL creative applicants), in programming (this is the primary driver behind the freeware movement) and in many, if not most, industries dealing with intellectual property.

You did, in fact, get something out of this deal.


That said, I too hope that things work out well for your son, Mr. King and, yes, your art is quite lovely.