DDS Plugins and MIP Maps

[Seagoat]

I'm trying to tinker with the target rings in my Test server custom UI folder, but I keep hitting a brick wall...hopefully someone here can help.

Attached is a screenshot of the DDS plugin I'm using. I've tried different combinations according to the threads I've found in this forum (DXT3 vs. 32 bit ARGB; "Generate MIP maps" vs. "Use existing MIP maps," etc., ad nauseum), but nothing seems to work when it comes to saving an altered DDS file with the proper MIP maps.

I'm just trying a simple colorize on the default "ring_target.dds" file. These are the steps I'm taking:

- I load the file in PSP 9 and choose "No" when prompted to have the MIP maps displayed with the image.
- I promote the background layer to a raster layer, load the selection from the alpha channel, then delete the grey background.
- I apply my colorize (a lovely shade of sapphire blue ), then click "Save As."
- When prompted to overwrite the existing "ring_target.dds" file, I choose "Yes."
- I also choose "Yes" when I'm warned that the current image will be merged because of the file format limitations and I'm asked if I want to continue the save.
- The DDS save dialog pops up with the default options selected as shown in the attached image.

I've tried DTX3 & Generate MIPs, 32-bit ARGB & Generate MIPs, DTX3 & Use existing MIPs, 32-bit ARGB & Use existing MIPs -- and in-game, I get all MIPs displayed at once or just one size of the target ring that totally disappears when I move further than about 5 feet from my target.

The plugin I'm using and its save dialog aren't what's pictured in the PDF files included with the download from the NVIDIA website. Is their PDF out of date, or am I somehow using the wrong files?

Please help me, while I still have hair left.

[Dolby]

What does the result look like when you try to use it in game with out the MIP maps?

[gm9]

I save everything as DXT3, 2D Texture, No MIP maps.

[Seagoat]

Wow...saving the target ring without any MIP maps seems to work better than trying to save it with MIP maps.

Here's what I get with the different options:

1. "No" to view MIPs upon file open, saved w/ "Generate MIP maps"
(Fine up close, but from farther away, there are lines radiating out from the center)



2. "No" to view MIPs upon file open, saved w/ "Use existing MIP maps"
(Totally distorted; it seems to have cut the single image into MIP maps, which was Not a Good Idea)


3. "Yes" to view MIPs upon file open, saved w/ "Generate MIP maps"
(All of the old MIP maps translated into a single image)


4. "Yes" to view MIPs upon file open, saved w/ "Use existing MIP maps"
(Fine up close, but disappears totally after moving a short distance away)



Using GM9's suggestion, I saved with no MIP maps...this is what I got:


...Which definitely beats all the other attempts to date with a stick. It does seem that viewing the ring from farther away makes the edges seem a bit rough, but I can live with that.

BTW, it's incredibly tedious to test these ring graphics...I guess the new graphics files aren't changed with /loadui, so the only way I've successfully been able to load the updated images is to relog. :-/ Pain in the backside!! It would be great if /loadui covered the graphics too, but that might be too much of a resource hog.

[Seagoat]

I think I'm getting the hang of this...here are my first two target rings!

The purple one is my very first, before I refined the alpha channel transparency. I'm going to revisit that one and polish it up a bit, probably with a different color scheme. It was just my first try to see whether or not I could get the transparency right.

The sunflower turned out great...the transparency is spot-on and the edges are nice and clean. Yay!!

I'm going to wind up filling the Target Ring download category single-handedly, LOL.

[Othesus]

Sorry I didn't get to reply to this earlier. I spend a couple days working on target rings and posted here:
http://www.eq2interface.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=8337
and asked a question in the eq2 forums here:
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/p...opic_id=361173

I may not be able to say exactly how to use the Photoshop plugin since I don't have Photoshop but I've been reading up on how the DirectX texture compression formats work.

The tools I use are:
GIMP DDS plugin
NVIDIA thumbnail viewer
Microsoft DirectX texture editor (from the DirectX SDK)
ATI Compressonator
Err, so it's kind of a mish mash of a lot of things.

Your problems are probably a result of the different way mipmaps and textures can be handled. Here's the general wikipedia entry for mipmaps and texture filtering. The default target ring textures have 3 mipmaps (512x512, 256x256, and 128x128) Most mipmap programs generate all of them down to the smallest size. So one of the strange things you saw was probably caused by it only loading three mipmaps but then saving 10 mipmaps. I think the rotating beacon effect is caused by colored texels on the edge of the texture and the texture is applied to the surface with clamp mode. Here's another illustration of clamp mode.

I haven't gotten to do much testing since then but have you tried checking the box that says "Alpha Zero Border"? That may force the texture to have a one texel wide transparent border.

So generally, any texture that will be seen in 3D should have mipmaps to avoid aliasing and shimmering effects. UI graphics don't need them of course. With my settings at Balanced, the target rings only appear at the 2nd or 3rd mipmap anyway-- I never get to see the highest resolution version.


After generating mipmaps we get to decide what kind of compression to use. Compression should be the last step since it's a lossy process and it introduces artifacts. DXT compression is a good idea though, since it saves drive space, system RAM, and video RAM.

Here are some good references:
UnrealWiki (general overview)
Wikipedia (more technical)
MSDN (most technical)

The quick guide is:
DXT1 (called BC1 in DirectX10): 8:1 compression, use if you don't need an alpha channel or a 1 bit (on or off) alpha channel.
DXT3 (called BC2 in DirectX10): 4:1 compression, same type of color compression as DXT1 and best for sharp, hard-edged alpha transitions.
DXT5 (called BC3 in DirectX10): 4:1 compression, same type of color compression as DXT1 and best for smooth, more gradual alpha transitions.

Anyway, I'll have to do some more testing with some target rings when I have time.

[Seagoat]

WOW, that's a lot of information!! Thanks, Othesus!

I don't know a thing about the different modes, but I noticed the "beacon effect" on my own rings when there were non-transparent pixels too close to the edge of the image. To keep this from happening, I've been working with a 512x512 canvas, but the opaque layers are no larger than 500x500 (6-pixel transparent "no man's land" on each side). It seems to work so far; I haven't encountered a "beacon" since I started using those dimensions (EDIT: and choosing "No MIP maps" when saving).

For my save settings, I've been using the defaults in the image I posted in the OP, but I set my "Save Mode" to "32 bit ARGB" (which I assume translates to the "8:8:8:8 ARGB" format that everyone else seems to find worthwhile) and my "MIP Maps" to "No MIP maps."

It seems to be working well for me so far...I've released a Stained Glass and an Aztec Sun target ring already, and I've got an Art Deco one on the way.

Thanks so much for all those links. I have the distinct feeling that I'll be referencing this post a lot in the coming weeks, LOL.

[Balrick]

I had the same problem with my Target Rings. Thanks to Seagoat for sending me to this thread I found the plugin and what I was doing wrong :P