Musings on the Future of the Info Center....

[DBurgdorf]

A little more than a year ago, two major factors prompted me to create the Milquetowst Info Center. First, some of the info I wanted to be able to access wasn't readily available, and second, I hated having to go out of the game to look things up. (I don't like playing in windowed mode.)

Obviously, with GU32's working browser window, the second consideration is no longer relevant.

GU32 only went live two days ago, but already, several people have suggested to me that the Info Center should be moved or copied to a Web site. I really have no interest in doing so. I don't want to create yet another EQ2 Web site, and frankly don't see the need for one. In fact, my own thoughts are running in the opposite direction completely. Now that the existing Web sites can be easily accessed from within the game, much of the Info Center's content has become redundant.

Certainly, some of the Info Center's content is still useful, either because it still isn't readily available elsewhere, or because I just happen to have put it together in a better format than anyone else.

But much of it is really no longer necessary. What real purpose is served now by the relative handful of quest walk-thrus, at least some of which I know are out of date, when it's suddenly become quite simple from within the game to access sites with *hundreds* of up-to-date quest walk-thrus?

I think the time has come for me to "switch gears," so to speak. Up 'til now, I've been trying to put more and more stuff into the Info Center. Now, I think it's time to start paring it down again, and get rid of stuff that's readily accessible in the same (or superior) form elsewhere.

I certainly wouldn't mind not having to feel guilty any more for spending time *playing* instead of updating walk-thrus that I don't have a personal need for at the moment, anyway.

OK, I know this is rambling a bit, but what I'm really looking for, I guess, is some feedback regarding what should stay and what should go. I know what information *I* tend to reference the most, but I've no idea what others find most useful.

-- Darryl (Milquetowst)

[gm9]

I've always played in windows mode and thus had no issues with using my out-of game browser for information. Nevertheless I regularly use the infocenter, it is just faster information that is more condensed in one spot. So in my opinion your great resource has not become outdated just yet.

I have to admit, though, that I rarely ever used the whole quest info part. The most used features for me are the spell, harvesting and crafting lists.

[Reemul]

Yeah i have no issue tabbing oput of game to find info BUT the centre is so quick, effective, never crashes and is very relevant.

It is great to have the top info to hand, sure some things may need updating but even online i find this.

Maybe a small Poll to ask if anyhting needs to be removed, also post what you use the most and least so we can see where you are heading.

I joined a new guild recently and the 1st mod i recommended to people was yours if they didn't have it.

[Zonx]

IMO the quest info (and maybe spells) are obsolete. Socials are redundant. There are several performance mods that provide more emidiate access.

The other info you've gathered... harvesting, mounts, housing, writs, etc... are not readily available on the usual web sites in as friendly a format. I encourage you to keep this stuff available in some format, its very useful

[Linadina]

Mostly We (my hubby and myself) use the spells and harvesting infore regularly, and until recently didnt have a good enough computer to tab out of the game. Even though we now have the best pc's out there I love the info center, its fast accurate and easy to get to in game. As far as were concerned the info center is still a great resource and very much needed. It May need updateing or pareing down. We also do not like to play in windows mode.

Thanks for the great resource Brenda

[Deathbane27]

Infocenter fast.

In-game browser slow.

Keep.

[garylian]

The harvesting and collecting information is priceless, and I hope that never goes away.

As for quests, some of it is outdated, but the HQ information has been spot on in my experience.

The IC is quick to use, isn't a resource pig like IE or FireFox, and simply gets the job done. None of the sites with good information on it do much to prevent them from being a banner farm, with plenty of Flash stuff that eats up even more memory.

I spent the first 6 months of my return to EQ2 not using it, even though I knew it was there. One day I decided to pull my head out of my backside, and now, I rarely go more than a gaming session without pulling it up. Even if it is just to answer someone else's question about harvesting items, it's been a great help. I swear I give out a lot of Fetish UI recommendations, and one of the big reasons is your IC that Zonx has wisely included in his phenomenal setup.

It's your play time, and you should enjoy it. Scaling IC back won't hurt me, because much of what I use it for, you won't have to modify very often. Enjoy the game, and thanks for your continued efforts!

[Laffs]

I use it all the time!! I have a fast enough system to "tab" in and out quickly but dont like doing it because it messes my gamma up and I miss things thats happening in game, basicly its a pita...

Also the thought of trawling though countless websites to get the info I need is another major pita !

All the info your center contains is used by me and is a very very usefull, if not an essential referance from within game....

Pffft "redundant" due to a stupid browser window, Utter nonsense

So stop slacking and keep the damn thing updated !!! Thankies

[Othesus]

I would say keep most of it unless the information takes a lot of work to maintain or is completely available somewhere on the web. So, I would say don't worry about updating the GU notes every month, those are in the Launchpad and on the forums. For something like the TIWIKE you can just link the actual post in the eq2forums, as long as that post is kept up to date.

I do like most of the other information just because it's well organized and I know where to find it quickly. If you need more help keeping it up to date I think there are probably more people around that can help out with the sections, and updating the txt files.

[Kali]

I have used this mod ever since I discovered it here and recommended it to more people than I can count. I'd like to see it kept going, and as the previous poster stated, I am sure there are plenty of folks around that would be more than happy to give you a hand with keeping it updated. Thank you so much for this mod and all the hard work you've put into it.

[Rashaka1]

Hey, just wanted to put in my 2 cents. =-)

I think the info center is a great mod personally, there are only 1 or 2 problems that I really have with it. Currently, a lot of the data is out of date or unnecessary, for example. The UI tweaking information, some of it is good, and some of it is out of date, it was made when EQ first came out or close, there is data in there about how there are no Video Cards on the market that can run EQ2 to it's fullest and how 512meg Vram cards don't exist, but currently a single 8800 card can run the game in max settings, and there are cards with 768meg Vram. Personally I think that information would be better places in a text file and stuck on a website honestly, maybe submit it to allakhazam or something as a tweak guide, it's great info, but you would only really use it once, no real need to access it on demand. There are a few tabs in there that could be removed because of this reason.

The second problem I have with it, is being incomplete. You have a section for HQ's, but there are still several that are not done and there are tons of walkthroughs on the web for these. I really like the info center because it's right there and there is no waiting for looking stuff up. Even with the in game browser currently, it's too slow and it's missing a lot of normal browser functions, such as a visit history... so you have to always type in the full address and then search for your data, instead of having bookmarks. I personally would like to see completed projects, I sat down last night and copied walkthroughs from www.eq2i.com for the HQ's that you had yet to finish, because I just found out that your mod is basically a bunch of txt files and it makes it super easy to modify. I haven't been playing the game long. =-)

EQ2i is a website that does not allow copyrighted information, so you are free to use anything from their site that you see. I didn't take credit for the info, I just copied it to the txt files so I would have it on hand instead of having to look them up on the site everytime I needed the info. It only took me about 15 minutes to get the data I wanted. I think the BEST future for the info center would be to make it totally customizable. Make it so that I have a huge list of things to choose from and I can determine what is and isn't shown in the game. Make it so you can change, and or remove tabs, buttons or information from within the text files. Then make it so people have a place they can upload information, such as a website, in the form of a .txt file. That way the users can make guides and such that they find useful and upload them to the site and then others can download them and incorporate them into their info center and you have a lot less work to do. The hardest part will be recoding the program, so that it can do something like that. I have a lot of ideas on how it could be done, but unfortunetly I don't know enough about visual basic to just do it myself and send you some examples. =-(

The mod is great and even with the implementation of the browser, I think it's far from being outdated due to that reason, it's just outdated due to lack of current material, which is a lot of work for one person to keep up with, and have any kind of life and play the game. lol

-Rashaka Swifttail, Mistmoore Server

[koiecks]

I really like having the info right at my disposal, instead of having to tab out of the game to look something up on a site where I may not find it anyway. Please keep.

[Faetyl]

Darryl,
Let me first start by saying how fantastic of a resource your InfoCenter has been to MANY!

With that said,
I think you could do even better with a web based version AND I think it would be not only easier for you to update, but also easier for everyone else to use and more useful.

Here's my thrown together version until we can convince you to continue on with your magic with the new tools SOE has handed us.
http://thorui.thorsparks.com/infocenter

As i mentioned in the original post where the updates to the browser window were discussed.
I see an InfoCenter managed by a team of individuals "just like EQ2Maps" (At least I think that's how its managed".
All the maps that are offered in EQ2Maps can be made available with the grid overlay so we can assist friends find places in game without have to go there ourselves. For example: "Yeah the guy in such and such is in Everfrost sector A4."

And soooo much more i'd run out of characters in this post if I were to continue...

[DBurgdorf]

Well, I've removed the quest walk-thrus from the Info Center, but added buttons to open the in-game browser directly to Allakhazam's quest lists. They were a pain in the ass to bother with, and probably more than anything else in the Info Center, were readily available elsewhere, anyway.

Beyond that, though, I think I'm going to leave things pretty much as they are for the time being. (I mean structurally, of course; obviously, I'll keep updating the information.)

A few specific responses, most of them explanations of why items suggested for deletion from the Info Center *won't* actually be deleted....

Zonx: I'll admit, the "socials" tab isn't hugely useful, but I like having the info handy when I want it. (Mostly, I don't actually use the buttons, myself; I just use the page to remind me which commands exist, and which ones have voiceovers or duplicate animations.) As well, I like the way I've got the commands arranged, and in any event, don't use any other mods which make a list of "socials" commands available. So it's staying.

Othesus: The GU update notes involve almost no maintenance, so they might as well stay. *Shrug*

Rashaka (a): If you're running on a machine which allows you to jack all the graphics options to the max, then more power to you. But many of us are still running on machines that weren't top-of-the-line even when EQ2 first came out. So having a handy reference for what the graphics options actually do, is quite useful. (I've found myself referencing it while playing on more than one occasion.) In every respect that matters, the guide is still entirely up-to-date; the graphics settings still do the same things they did when it was written. The fact that newer cards are better than the cards that were available two years ago doesn't make the information the guide provides about those settings any less accurate.

Rashaka (b): The "notes" tab allows you to add whatever information you like to the Info Center. Beyond that, if you want to "personalize" the window, I'm afraid the only option is to learn XML and mod a new version of it yourself. tailored to provide the specific information you want. I'm not trying to be a smartass; I just don't know of any way to do what you suggested. And anyway, I've never expected that every user would find *everything* the Info Center contains to be worthwhile.

Faetyl: Perhaps I'm still missing something, but I really don't see how an online version of the Info Center would be fundamentally different than the various EQ2 Web sites that already exist. *Shrug*

-- Darryl (Milquetowst)

[Gnomeanns]

Your info center makes things much easier for me I cioiuld use their browser bur hoiw secure is it SOE is not real big on doing things without there being a problem so I trust their browser less than most and even your out od date info has proven helpful as U had some of the quests so when I looked em up the copuld not find the npc I just write it down to look up on the web and figure you'll update soon. What I would like to see added if people wil supply the info , a bot list some of us have a blast getting bots killed. Last night a guildie at the hall of fate moving bridge got the lead bot to midddd then the other 5 went right over the edge behind hahahaha I'd rather not have to go out of game to get info but have it in game in an info center. I do appreciate tghe work you have done and if you decide not to I understand but for each of us that posts there are probably 100 who don't but feel the same way.

Not only that SOE has consistently worked to shut down those who make the game more fun I am sure their browser tells them who is going where during playing times

[Faetyl]

Originally Posted by DBurgdorf

Faetyl: Perhaps I'm still missing something, but I really don't see how an online version of the Info Center would be fundamentally different than the various EQ2 Web sites that already exist. *Shrug*

-- Darryl (Milquetowst)

Things like this...
http://thorui.thorsparks.com/infocen...ts/epic2_0.htm
It's just thrown together right now but I'm already getting feedback from many who really like it.

In my mind, no different that what you did with the infocenter.
Just take the information that anyone can find via the countless websites and forums and compile it into an easily viewable and usable in game source.

Way easier to update than having to edit xml and plain text includes.

Also:
ACT automatic ftp upload for groups, raids, etc can be pushed to a website so no more cut off text in game and having to manually paste the parse.

[Zonx]

Website advantages over an in-game window...

1) Generally more/nicer formatting options with CSS, tables, etc.

2) Easier to cross-link text and images (everything is a button in HTML)

3) Updates are immediate, no need to download a zip or run a patcher.

4) In many cases, you could avoid having to update info yourself by simply linking to another resource on the web that has that info.

5) Immediate feedback. With web forms, you could give your users the ability to comment on content, without needing to tab out of game. This might be corrections, additions, or requests for new stuff.

6) Your very useful resource would be available while not logged in.

Disadvantages...

1) SOE's browser could break, but I honestly don't see that being any more likely than a custom window breaking.

2) The browser eats up system reources. Someone would have to run some tests to see just how loading the browser with 1 page of your content compairs to loading the custom window with ALL content. My personal impression is that the performance is very similar if the web page is kept relatively simple.

3) Can't execute EQ2 scripts from a web page, so the handful of features you've included that do execute scripts would need to be ditched or dealt with in a custom window.

Overall I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantage. If you decide not to go the web wrote, I may end up doing it myself but I really would rather not steal your thunder

[Calain80]

I'm a bit selfish and would like to have both.

On the one side I still love the IC for the city wits, the harvest table, the spell lists, the racial traditions, the mount guide, the house guide and the food guide.

On the other side I found Othesus Browser with bookmarks-- GU 32 very useful to browse eq2i.com or some other guides and our guild site from within the game.

Best of both worlds.
So I agree, that the quest information can be easily access through websites, but most of the other info can't.

Thanks for all the hard work btw.

[moldragor]

I for one use the infocenter almost every time I load up the game. I also used to be a huge fan of Alak's site, but recently when I go there to do research, I can't find complete info on what I'm looking for, so I started using eq2i instead, and have not been disappointed (with the incomplete zone map of Barren Sky and Bonemire being the exception) with the site. So, here is my suggestion which you can use or ignore at your discretion.

Allow us, the users of the Infocenter, to help determine it's content. I'd love to send in updates and have them show up in new versions down the road. I also like the ability to have all the text files editable by anyone, and we can post and download the updates ourselves.

Perhaps modify Infocenter to allow us to chose where to link the URLs for walkthrus, etc? If you want to have that info always-up-to-date with no work on your part, simply chose the links yourself, put them in a txt file, and then let us modify the txt file to link to our "preferred" sites.

An autopatcher like eq2map would be awesome - perhaps you can work on that while we, your loyal users, help keep the info up to date?

[Sacraed]

As far as the HQ/Sig/etc walkthroughs go, just listing an Quest's name, level and where/who starts it is enough. We can get the walkthroughs from the web, but we don't know to get them if we don't know they exist.

The convoluted quest lines like Claymore and Greenhoods might be nice in the IC rather than trying to piece them together on Allakhazam or TTHammer. After opening up 4 or 5 pages of 'related quests' it's enough to say screw it and stick to the simpler quests.

The harvest info is vital. Nothing I hate more than zoning somewhere using spires, boats and wizzies to find out that what I want is not there. The cookbook goes hand in hand with the harvest info. I know exactly what to make and what I need to do it, and where to go to get ingrediants.

And I do make use of the Notes section but without table cappabilities I just suck at making notes. And the worst... not backing up my Notes folders before updating the mod.

Btw, I've mentioned my wife's lack of familiarity with UI's and mode pieces before. I don't think she would even know she had an ingame browser button unless she accidently clicked on it. For ppl like her (and there are lots of them out there!), the IC is vital.

Sacraed

[TheStarGazer]

Hey i love the infocenter, i use it regularly. for spells, harvesting, etc. the only thing i miss from it is Tier 7 Raid Class raid loot. hehe. but im just dreaming.

What i would have loved would have been updated spells, and screenshots of the Master Variants of each spell, so you know what to aim for. im sure the community could help with this.

Info Center is a tad slow on my PC. buts thats a lack of ram on my end i think.

All the major Quest types should remain i think
L&L, Heritage, Signature, etc. they are referenced often on each toon i play. along with the other stuff.

I will have a further look into this once im finished with my UI overhaul.

Keep it up man. id hate to see this mod die.