So How Many Modders Actually Use the UI Builder?

DBurgdorf · #1 06-14-2005, 10:09 PM

I'm just curious how many of those who mod actually use the UI Builder program. I took a quick look at it a week or two after I started modding, but couldn't make any immediate sense out of it, and so haven't bothered with it again.

(But then, I've never liked "HTML editor" programs, either, preferring to do things the old-fashioned way. I've been working with Textpad and Photoshop since before HTML editors existed. And I find it amusing that the UI Builder seems to put just as much junk in the XML files it creates as HTML editors put in their HTML pages.)

So 'fess up. Who uses the UI Builder, and who doesn't?

-- Darryl

dc_roenfanz · #2 06-14-2005, 10:41 PM

To " 'fess up" would be admitting "guilt". I must say, I feel no guilt so ever using UI Builder. I am a visual person by nature, so it's nice that I get to see what I am working on while I do it.

There is no way that I can look at a pile of text and 'see' how it's going to be layed out.

Sir Taleisin The Seer · #3 06-14-2005, 10:48 PM

couldn't copy and paste as easily without it ^_^

DBurgdorf · #4 06-14-2005, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc_roenfanz

To " 'fess up" would be admitting "guilt". I must say, I feel no guilt so ever using UI Builder.

I didn't intend to imply any need for guilt, and the "'fess up" was directed at both those who do and those who don't.

Quote:

I am a visual person by nature, so it's nice that I get to see what I am working on while I do it. There is no way that I can look at a pile of text and 'see' how it's going to be layed out.

That's what I use Photoshop for. Well, one of the things, anyway.

The one time I loaded a mod into the UI Builder, I found myself looking at a grid with a bunch of semi-transparent colored boxes on it. In the few minutes I played with it, I couldn't figure out any way to turn that into an actual picture of what the window was supposed to look like, and I wasn't sufficiently worried about it to actually bother looking for the manual (which I'm sure is in the EQ2 directory somewhere).

*Shrug* To each his own.

As I said, I didn't intend to imply that there's anything "wrong" with using it. Far from it. I'm just curious how many do, and how many don't, especially in light of a comment I read in passing yesterday stating that it apparently hasn't been updated to reflect the new fonts yet.

-- Darryl

taco-man · #5 06-15-2005, 12:00 AM

when i did mods, i used it for the layout part of mods, however its a pain in the butt if you want to do scripting with it. for that part i used notepad2 to edit the xml files to do scripting.

Hellwulf · #6 06-15-2005, 12:13 AM

i use it to see what im doing, i dont like it too much, but it makes it easy on some parts,, but i still do some editing in notepad too, nothing i edit is very complicated tho heh

**Zonx** · #7 06-15-2005, 12:50 AM

UI Builder for like 95% of my edits. Only the occasional minor tweak gets done with Notepad.

For very complex/long scripts, I occationally work them out in a real scripting tool, then copy/paste them into UIB.

UIB does alot of things for you that would be cumbersome with a script editor. A few examples:

- Manages style references globally, so name changes and style moves propagate to every object referencing the style.

- Includes a handy tool for defining image slices.

- The whole WYSIWYG editor with align and distribute tools makes layout tasks a ton easier.

- The Run feature is great for testing most scripts without needing to log into EQ2. Saves a ton of time.

- Helps ensures your code isn't botched.

Yah its got its annoying aspects, and does take time to get a handle on, but its worth it if you're tweaking more then a handful of files.

dc_roenfanz · #8 06-15-2005, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DBurgdorf

I didn't intend to imply any need for guilt, and the "'fess up" was directed at both those who do and those who don't.

Yeah, I know what you meant. I just felt like poking at your word choice

Quote:

That's what I use Photoshop for. Well, one of the things, anyway.

Well, yes for image editing and that sort of thing, but for layouts and getting the rects right, etc.

Quote:

The one time I loaded a mod into the UI Builder, I found myself looking at a grid with a bunch of semi-transparent colored boxes on it. In the few minutes I played with it, I couldn't figure out any way to turn that into an actual picture of what the window was supposed to look like, and I wasn't sufficiently worried about it to actually bother looking for the manual (which I'm sure is in the EQ2 directory somewhere).
*Shrug* To each his own.

Yeah you kinda hafta load the whole eq2ui.xml instead of the individual file. I think this is mainly because the eq2ui.xml contains not only the idividual windows, but the image ref's and the gamedatas etc.

Quote:

As I said, I didn't intend to imply that there's anything "wrong" with using it... <snip>... it apparently hasn't been updated to reflect the new fonts yet.

Yeah, that no fonts part blows. *grumble hiss*

Deathbane27 · #9 06-15-2005, 02:05 AM

I've been using it 99% of the time. After I figured out that you had to open eq2ui.xml instead of the file you were altering, that is.

Laffs · #10 06-15-2005, 05:50 AM

I would say I use it 70% and 30% Notepad2, like if there is a code problem but the window looks right then its quicker to find whats wrong in notepad and correct, because of course you can see all the code lol

I do agree though the UI builder can at time's put a load of junk code in that can have some strange effects

Corren Silverfir · #11 06-15-2005, 09:31 AM

I use it! Very handy tool once you figure out how to use it.

**SOE_Bobble** · #12 06-15-2005, 10:13 AM

We use it at SOE, close to 99% vs %1 using DevStudio to edit the xml directly.

I'll see what it would take to turn on the new fonts in it.

Not to derail the thread -- but anything else people would like to see UIBuilder do, not do, do better?

Bobble

**Zonx** · #13 06-15-2005, 11:04 AM

Hey Bobble, plz have a look at this doc I prepared a while back. A few of the items on this list have been addressed.

If I think of more UIB specific tweaks, I'll post them here

1 that comes to mind is making the scripting popup window resizable. Would be nice if the "Add Property" popup had a button next to the value field that opened the larger scripting window.

Of course it would be great if that scripting window had some more robust editing tools, stuff like color coding and line numbers.

Sir Taleisin The Seer · #14 06-15-2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOE_Bobble

anything else people would like to see UIBuilder do, not do, do better?

I'd just like it's source code

Nitefang · #15 06-15-2005, 01:32 PM

My biggest issue with the Builder is basically a nitpick - when I exit the program it asks me to save my work - even if I just saved it - it would be nice if it performed some sort of check before prompting to save.

Zeyr · #16 06-17-2005, 10:57 PM

I use the UI Builder for everything visual. Working with the XML directly I can't see the changes in real time. Notepad runs the whole time though, I use it to write out any of the scripts I need and then paste it into the UI Builder.

Plus, without the UI Builder I couldn't make the giant ugly bright purple squares I use to get the proper placements and settings of my ingame windows!

Edit:
Just for you all to laugh at me, when I first started I had the UIBuilder set to Run at all times. I thought it was impossible to work with until I read over here to turn off Run. Suddenly it became a great tool. There was a solid week of me complaining to my friends about it before I got educated. Took a crowbar to get that foot out of my mouth.

DBurgdorf · #17 06-18-2005, 12:21 AM

Apparently, I *am* a bit of an "odd man out."

I tried playing with the UI Builder a bit again tonight, and managed to get it to show me how the "main tab" of any particular window looks, but couldn't figure out how to get it to show me how other tabs look. And I still don't like the fact that it clutters up XML files with all those meaningless "PackLocationProp" and "PackSizeProp" attributes, not to mention pointlessly duplicating all "Tooltip" and "Text" attributes in "LocalTooltip" and "LocalText" definitions.

(My help window mod file, in particular, would be nearly twice as big if I let the UI Builder play with it. In fact, it was while looking at Depechnode's version of that file a while back that I first began to realize just how much junk the UI Builder adds.)

Personally, I have very little trouble knowing what a window's going to look like if I simply play with screenshots in Photoshop and manually adjust definitions in the XML file using TextPad. When I reload the game to check things "live," I may end up having to adjust a pixel here or there, but seldom much more.

I suppose those used to WYSIWYG editors would find my methodology tedious, but I actually enjoy working that way.

And being the sort of finicky AR twit that I am, even if I *did* start using the UI Builder, I'd probably not use it for anything more than bulk placement, anyway. I'd still feel the need to go in and tinker with the file manually in order to finish things up.

-- Darryl

Findarato · #18 06-18-2005, 03:53 AM

I use it all the time.

nerasa · #19 06-20-2005, 06:32 PM

i would use it, but i cant get it to work, nothing shows up in the windows, is there a walkthrough of a basic mod somewhere? I did alot of ui stuff for eq1, all just by reading the xml, but the eq2 xml makes no sence to me at all, when I think I have something right, I load into the game, and nothing is different, I can install other mods, and they work fine, but I cant even get simple changes like window sizes to show up

**Faetyl** · #20 06-20-2005, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nerasa

i would use it, but i cant get it to work, nothing shows up in the windows, is there a walkthrough of a basic mod somewhere? I did alot of ui stuff for eq1, all just by reading the xml, but the eq2 xml makes no sence to me at all, when I think I have something right, I load into the game, and nothing is different, I can install other mods, and they work fine, but I cant even get simple changes like window sizes to show up

An excellent compilation of information can be found here:
http://www.eq2interface.com/forums/f...#faq_uibuilder

Also plenty of people in the Help forum that are willing to help.

Regards,
Thor/Faetyl of the Unrest Server

nerasa · #21 06-20-2005, 07:13 PM

ok I must be a real retard. I went through the tutorial, and made sure I was in play mode. I went to the main hub tab, on the right pane, where you have every equi_blah window known to mankind open. When I try to move them out of the way, the entire pane goes to a big red box. I tried it in play mode, and out of play mode, same thing, thats the icon thats a triangle, like a mouse pointer right?

Laffs · #22 06-20-2005, 07:39 PM

Sounds like when you clicked and dragged you picked up the letterbox frame lol.... That can be a real pain basicly if the whole area highlights in red then you have that selected, Try double clicking on another window and try again.

EdIT

Also you dont need drag them out the way! ... Just select say the Player file under the mainhud page in the tree view and toggle the visible button also in that pane .. that way you can just show / hide the windows as and when you want to work on them... (that is good to start off with, But if you are modding a mod you should turn back on / off any visablity settings you changed on the windows, as it can mess up the way the mod functions)